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The Working Class Woman Movement
Season 3 Ep 7 Navigating Love Part 2 : Expectations vs Reality With Guest Len
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Welcome to the three of us spoken groups. This will be a journey of breaking generational creatures, spiritual ties while we live in our practice and to become one with our higher selves through breaking chains of poverty consciousness and understanding the power of attraction and always aiming to be better versions of ourselves and vibrating in our frequency. Join me on this journey of discovering unspoken truth and changing the narrative. This is from a woman who's just like you a mother, a sister, a daughter, and a godchild. And in everything else in between, I am still an individual riding The Waves of Life. I'm Nita Territie, your host of Unspoken Truth. Welcome back to yet another episode of Unspoken Truth, Navigating Love, Expectations versus Reality, Part 2. And I'm joined by Len who will share his male perspective. So let's jump into the topic navigating love, expectations versus reality. So initially half the time we always say people must introduce themselves, but Len has decided to stay anonymous. Okay, so we're gonna respect Len. All he's gonna do is share his views and his points, and we love to hear from what males have to say. So as we dive dive in into this expectations versus reality, I've got a scenario here. So I have this thing that I have in my head where I generally want my partner coming from work to pick me up, embrace me, hold me, cuddle me, and be like, I missed you, I want to see you, I've waited to see you all day. But I've never voiced it out. I expect it to be done, but in reality, it never happens because I've never communicated it. Then I've got this thing where every time I'm watching dishes, I expect him to come and hold me, embrace me, whisper something in my ears, something gentle as I do some house chores. It's all in my head. It's an expectation, but in reality, I've never voiced it. Okay. So we're navigating love. And we all know that as women, we have these expectations that we need from our other hearts. And sometimes we're so bad in communicating it. And sometimes maybe we are communicating it, but how we're communicating it, we're not being heard or understood. So I wanted to open this platform for me and Len to have this discussion of what his views are, his male's perspective on love, navigating love, expectations, and reality. What's your story? How do you see this?
SPEAKER_02I think um the biggest problem that that we have within communication, one is comprehension, two is oversharing and thinking it is communication. And men, as men, we don't understand, we basically can't um navigate between venting, expressing, and communicating. Because some things you could be communicating so that I get to understand them, some of the things you're venting so that you just sit there and keep quiet and say, I understand. And I I I feel your pain, I empathize with you, and it's gonna be okay. And then at some point, you want me to respond. And when I respond, you want me to be in an emotional and the same emotional state that you're in. So, in most cases, emotions are not expressed by most women because uh they think that men would understand them in the same way emotionally, whereas we don't. We more on the physical logical uh perspective, as much as you know, a woman's energy is settled, uh male's energy is movement energy. And if you check, you guys would please talk about consistency now. In terms of consistency, we say you would like this, you would like this, or you would like this, and you see me doing these things and you like them. Now, when I start tweeting them, it becomes a question a questionable thing that are you sure you want to do this? Won't you be questioned why you changed it? So there's no surprise.
SPEAKER_03Do you even still love me? Do you do you even still love me?
SPEAKER_02Because we stick to consistency, and men are I believe men are the most inconsistent human beings because with we get to change and our changes in the physical uh form in every way than women being small psychological and more emotional. So that's what gives us an issue with navigation and navigating communication. Also, there's an expectation of men should understand the emotional state with women, and men are saying, I want my woman to understand the mental state, and he doesn't share because he feels that he needs to solve it first, and then share that this was the problem, and this is the way this is this is how I found the way out, this is where I need to support. However, with women, it's this is where I am, and this is where I am. And there's no communication about no communication about how I got there, there is just this is what I am. So that's where the communication gets to break down with expectations.
SPEAKER_03So are you saying that males have no expectations, they just live in reality? Is that what you're saying?
SPEAKER_02Men do have expectations, and they always communicate them. Men would say, and actually, our our our our communication is more in invalidation that when you do something and in appreciation, that when you do something, you know, I like it when you do this, I like it when you cook this, or I like it when you when I get home and have this feed. We we mention these things, however, they're taken as oh, it's a bonus, so I can only do it when I feel happy. And when you say he likes it that you're doing that, he means this is one of the reasons why you kept the relationship.
SPEAKER_03But then yet again, you see what you're saying then goes back to we can we can remain consistent in the things that we do, we can show up constantly giving you what you deserve and what you like, but then then there's then that you know, we then don't get it in return because males are not consistent. So then how do we navigate love in consistency? How do we meet these expectations in reality? Because I believe that expectations in reality can be can meet each other halfway, and knowing very well that women can be consistent in giving this love that is is needed by their partner, but their partner can't be consistent because they're ever changing and they're ever they're always logical. Where is the where's the in-between?
SPEAKER_02I think the biggest lie that we were told is that planning things in a relationship or planning things about love. Sorry, is um a recipe for disaster. Yeah, it's boring. Oh, yes, it's mendane. Yeah, yes, yes, yes. Let's go with the flow. I and and and this is mostly from women. Let's go with the flow. I like it when when I'm being surprised, you know, um, those random acts. No, it doesn't work that way. Because the truth of the matter is that in loving, your actions are a choice. So if my actions are a choice, when I go to work, I don't choose to have a birthday, uh birthday. So when I get home, I'm still, you know, that day is still over my shoulders, and your expectation is this, and it wasn't communicated. However, if we say on Wednesdays, I'm assigned days for you. No matter how I may feel, on my way back, I'm sheeting my mind that this is Wednesday and this is what I have to do. So I choose to do it because remember, loving is an act of choice. So now I choose to do this, and when I do it because I love you, and when I'm doing it, I'm doing it out of love. No matter how angry I may be at you and all about you, it gets to a point where what I do reminds me why I chose you. I chose to be with you, I chose to love you. So it has to go with planning.
SPEAKER_03But then won't it then become like an obligation than it is love? Because uh would we say that love is supposed to be like water, very free-flowing, but when you start uh putting plans in it, it becomes obligations that need to be met.
SPEAKER_02That's what that's a that's again another lie that we've been told. That when you plan it, it becomes an obligation. When you choose to do something, when you go to the gym, is it an obligation? No, when you choose a choice, let's say you choose one um one discipline, and you have to you have to show up for it, whether you're tired, whether you you're feeling otherwise, and just when you're sick. So that's where love uh spreads out from discipline. The first form of showing love is being disciplined. That when you say that on Wednesdays um we are going to pray before we go out, Wednesday are prayer days, and then we go out to have space where we can talk about everything, that becomes a ritual, it's an obligation, it's not. However, if it has to do with um, I would say physical touch or uh sort of an expression to the next one, it becomes that's where now we start putting the word obligation. If I say on Wednesday, we are going to talk about our feelings, you know, how how this week has been, how we have let you down and we have upset you. But first we're going to pray and then we go out for dinner, and then at the dinner table, that's where we talk about these things. This becomes a healing process for both of us, yet it's something that we planned. It has no obligation. No matter how day my no matter how bad my day may have been at work, I may have a fight with we may have a fight in the morning. I just know that that because it's Wednesday today, we are going to talk about everything.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_02When we talk about it.
SPEAKER_03And then that's where that consistency comes in again.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So we are not obligated, but we are in a space where we say we are practicing our love even when we are not in love. Because when you say we open something becomes an obligation, that means when I'm not in love, I can't do things that I do for you when I'm in love with you. So I'm not choosing to love you. And this is where I think most relationships get to lose it. That commit we don't understand commitment, we don't understand what loyalty is, we don't understand discipline.
SPEAKER_03We don't understand it, or we choose not to.
SPEAKER_02Do you what you're saying? I think it's more of an understanding because people believe in this fictional love, um, unconditional love, which is fictional, and one should always be in love to be doing something great for their partner.
SPEAKER_03So you're saying unconditional love is fictional? Unconditional love is fictional, but then where why would you want to put conditions in love?
SPEAKER_02So the conditions are based on my choices because when I say I love Anita and this is where I want to be with Anita, the condition is that what is Anita feeding for me to choose to love her. So if Anita stops giving that love, what am I going to do? That's another condition. That if Anita stopped reciprocating, what am I going to do? I chose to be with her and I choose to commit with her. So now I need to start finding a way to light her love back. So that's a condition again. I have to change that so that the spark comes back from her. Then she starts reciprocating again. So there's no such thing as conditional love because if there was conditional love, we would have to close our eyes and ears and let our heart guide us to whoever feels close to me. There's a connection, and then we open our eyes.
SPEAKER_03Because I feel like if we say that there is nothing like unconditional love, then that means it would be easy for us to then, you know, fall apart as as unions and couples. Because if if if we put certain boundaries and conditions of how we want to be treated, then generally if somebody is not faithful or somebody has done something, then it has to end. Because if your condition is I cannot deal with cheating, that means I must have no room for forgiveness. That's what it means if you put conditions.
SPEAKER_02So if I don't put conditions, then you can go out cheating and say, but I love you. You can't. I think it's a win-lose.
SPEAKER_03I feel like it's a win-lose situation here.
SPEAKER_02So the unconditional love for your children, let me give you. That's why we only have unconditional love. Your child always fails you. Your child, no matter, no matter how great their children your children may be, children always get to fail us because we have certain teachings that we give them, and then they break them. And they break these rules because you know, human evolution and things, certain things change and they don't change as we would desire, but it's for their growth. But it's also our expectations.
SPEAKER_03It's our expectations versus those realities.
SPEAKER_02So when we get these disappointments, what do we do? We open up to more loving, we open up to communication so that we get to understand them. So that is that is no condition. Now, a partner that puts you in a space where you're unable to reciprocate, you're unable to to to to to to to to move the way your love guides you, and you are you are you're unable to give them the kind of love that they want because of what they feed you, would you still be saying you could you'd be committed to that person?
SPEAKER_04I don't know.
SPEAKER_02That is why the stage of having to get married, when you say I choose this person, it's because you have seen what could spark their love back, even when they are not in love with you. You know what practice to do or you know what rituals to do with them so that it sparks the light back. So with unconditional love, that means from the first day that we meet, it just spark, I don't know how you handle anger, how you handle conflict and all that, and then I'm supposed to stay because it's unconditional. So I create all these conditions because there's different seats of loving. It's either you love from a need, you love from a desire, you love from the setting of giving, you love from the point of missing, or you know, trauma. There's different, there's different chairs that we sit on when we love it. And someone could have different nine chairs. And when she represents when she reciprocates, I'm sitting in the in the chair of maybe he reciprocating, maybe heals my trauma. So I do more so that she represents she reciprocates more, and then I'm able to say all the things that I did in my childhood that were not given back, I'm getting them here. So it is conditional. There are certain conditions that are there for our lovely.
SPEAKER_03But I I think I would beg to differ when we had to compare love with our partners and love with our children. Love with our partners, like you said, it's a choice. Love with our children is is is born deep. I don't think any scientist or doctor can ever explain that type of love. It's love that even when you're called a father or a mother, you know, um we also don't know as parents why this love remains consistent, why this love exists, even if they disappoint us a hundred times, we still choose our kids over and over and over again. So I feel like that one is a different type of love that we can never put it on a platform of love that we actually chose, that we were like, okay, I choose to love this person, I choose to navigate love with this person with our kids. It's not really a choice. Even it's it's it's it's a it's uh and it's not even an obligation either. It's a you wake up to do it effortlessly.
SPEAKER_02Effortlessly so now I have a question. Does that love hit in a different spot than the love of a partner? No, it still hits you in the stomach.
SPEAKER_03It still does, yes. It turns your stomach upside down.
SPEAKER_02So it's still love, either way. The difference is that when we are in a relationship, we choose.
SPEAKER_03Yes, we choose. So I don't want to, I don't want it, I don't want us to narrow that also with that, you know, with with having that example of true, because there are people who are in unions and were never blessed with kids. There are people who decided not to have kids. So I I I that's why I'm trying to also remove that because what happens then to a person who's never felt that type of love, you know, who doesn't know that type of love? They have this love of choice.
SPEAKER_02You know, say for people in that space, their love is is I would associate it with that one friend, be it that friend is their parent, be it that that friend is their teacher or the closest friend that they have, that the friend gets to fail them. And at some point, maybe the friend never apologizes. But however, they still keep back to you know to altering the plant. Those are bigger people.
SPEAKER_03I would say those are bigger people. I cut off people that hurt me out. I eliminate, I assassinate. Those are my conditions.
SPEAKER_02They are friends that they are friends that we can't even cut off because you feel that they are like a part of you, they are your brother or your sister, no matter how angry you maybe at them. Yes. So some people get some people get to have that. So I would relate it to that. Also, when it comes to that, it has no no no condition because these people get to break those lines, those barriers that you made, as as your to say that this is this is the line, this is the boundary, you don't cross this, and they get to cross it. And you don't even have to wait for their apology. Somehow you get to understand that oh, this person, by the way, has gone through this, so this is why they do this. But with your partner, when they break a boundary, you have to navigate around your feelings, you have to regulate your feelings, you have to choose to say, Do I still want to work with this person so they heal and they don't step on this boundary again? So that's where I would say the whole expectation thing comes in again, because we expect things that we don't communicate about, especially things like healing in the relationship. And people don't want to be other people's healers today, you know, because of how social media is saying that you need to jump into a relationship that's perfect for you. There's nothing perfect that you don't build. Everything that we build exactly. So for it to be perfect, and you have to keep on working with, and that's a choice, that's a discipline.
SPEAKER_04Feeding each other's childhood traumas, healing each other's childhood traumas. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Imagine I'm having this discipline of saying I come back home at seven o'clock and I know that my woman loves the kitchen, and I need to take my shoes off when I step into the kitchen and then breathe her and feed the kids and sit down. But today she feels like I should be hugging it and holding it, but she's not communicating it.
SPEAKER_04Now are you taking off your shoes instead of hiding from me?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, they're expected to be somewhere I should be just randomly lines spontaneous be spontaneous, be spontaneous.
SPEAKER_02The only thing that's spontaneous in relationships is intimacy that is triggered. This is one thing I think people get to miss. When you touch my shoulder, how I respond is being spontaneous, but you triggered it. So there's no spontaneous me just getting home and say, um, okay, you let me. I want to be spontaneous at that time. You don't feel like being spontaneous, then what happens? So that's the crossroads. Yeah. So tomorrow I'll be like, ah, maybe she's still feeling this way. And that's when you're like, no, be spontaneous today. If you don't communicate it, true. So I would I would rather say people should have rituals of saying on Thursday, we are having a spontaneous day, you know, doing anything and everything goes on that sorry on that day. Anything and then we know that on Thursday, you don't know what to expect, you know.
SPEAKER_04Yes, you're preparing and you're prepared, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Exactly. So you also get to appreciate the love thing that I'm giving. Because the also thing that we don't communicate is how do we want to be loved? Because if I know how you want to be loved and I give you that love, you are able to say, I appreciate you doing this, but we don't communicate, you know. We talk of love languages, but we don't break it down as to my love language is this, and when you're given that love, you see it and you mention it, and it's appreciated. So it it now I know how to give it to you. However, people don't even communicate how they want to be loved. Some people don't even know how they want to be loved, how they want to be loved, they don't even know how to love themselves, to be honest. The first part of loving self is discipline. If you can discipline yourself to to to something and say this is how you're going to treat it and be consistent to it, that from there, loyalty comes up. Because loyalty helps you to to to sort of um, I would say, put sort of circles on things and boundaries on things to say when I'm stepping to this boundary, this is how I have to carry myself. When I step into this boundary, this is how even though people may not see those boundaries, but you know that when I step into this space, this is and that makes you loyal to all these circles that you've created. So when a person comes into your life and you choose to be with that person, you know that you put a circle to that person to say, This is my relationship, this is the boundary, and you become loyal to that, and your consistency becomes a discipline. And with that, your partner also gets to learn how to respond to your traumas. You know, the conflict, the stresses, the not to trigger each other.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. I like when you say that planning. I really like the planning thing. It reminded me of something I saw that Titi Mba does with his daughters. And I remember saying that to my partner, that I want to do this, you know, and I want to do it as a family. He starts with his daughter, he says, What are we committing to this week? And when I saw that, I was like, this is such an incredible thing, not just for your children, but generally we will hear. And when I told him about it, he goes, How about if we do it on Sundays where we sit down as a family and we speak about what we're trying to commit for this week? So between me and you, we know what we're committing this week. Between me and the kid, us and the kids, we know what we're committing this week and what the kids are committing to this week, you know? And I'm like, I really liked seeing that uh Titium Bar having such such positiveness on social media. And it also made me realize that committing into things and building that also within our own children creates that navigating of love, creates that discipline that you're talking about. And like the way you're putting it now, I'm seeing, I'm also seeing it differently that maybe, yes, I should put my expectations aside. Maybe it is a female thing. Maybe it could be a male thing also, because males do not communicate as well, also to say, I would like this and this and this, I like when you cook this, or whatever the case might be. So you are right, maybe partners and couples we urge you to sit down and plan your week, what you want to do, how you want to do it, your date nights, your massage days, your let's let's vent day, let's vent a box. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Because what what that also creates, um, it creates the it it creates the the knowing how to love your partner and being able to appreciate and even tell them or see when they if if I don't know how I want to be loved, and I say my love language is food, but I'm not specific, and then you cook me spinach out of love, and I don't like spinach, I won't be able to say, Wow, that spinach was nice, I enjoyed it. So I'm not now foiling your love. Instead, after we eat, just then I'll wash dishes and say, Ah, thank you for the meal, and then we just sit down.
SPEAKER_06You better be grateful for that meal.
SPEAKER_02No, it gives you that thing, yeah, he is grateful, but I don't think he saw exactly what I was communicating with him. I was saying to him, I love him today. But if I say I love food, you know, especially this and this, when I see that on my plate, I see that today my bipartner is being intimate. My partner is being intimate with just the food. So she took time, and that's where I get to say, Ah, I see your love and I appreciate, you know, and may may I find a way to to to grow it or reciprocate it. So that's where we get to also like we start creating these expectations. However, there are just general expectations. I think as human beings, there are just general expectations that, you know, yes, we live in the patriarch so-called patriarchal world whereby I'm expected that when I get home, I need to see the kids, spend time with them, you know, especially play with them because that helps them, you know, with with with such a it raises the mom gives them um a form of sort of a discipline, and then the father gives them a way with the around the discipline of how to have fun. And that that gives them sort of a little bit of freedom. So I'm expected to do that. And I don't want to say naturally, but that's how things have been. And you are expected that when I get home, there's a home means you know, you took care of certain things at home, and where you need help, you communicate because this is where we also miss it. We don't communicate where we need help. We are expecting that the partner would see that I need help. If I don't see it heavy, I don't think that you will.
SPEAKER_03Come on, that's common sense. That is common sense.
SPEAKER_02But now imagine I don't see you picking something heavy. In my head, everything around you is in your way, so you don't need my help. For you to open that jar, that jar of pickles. I know that it's hard, so you're gonna call me. But you don't say today I'm feeling tired, I'm feeling so I'm feeling exhausted, my hormones. Can you please just prepare the vegetables or like prepare that? However, you want me to just you know smell it in the air. No, she's not okay.
SPEAKER_03Let me help her because it's common sense. Why don't you like today? Would you like some help? What's so hard about saying today would you like some help?
SPEAKER_02Just out of the blue, be spontaneous because 80% of the time, when a man asks a woman, would you like me to help you? The first answer that comes is no.
SPEAKER_03And then do I look like I'm struggling to do what I do all the time?
SPEAKER_02Not even that. Let's say let's say they're just gentle and kind partners, right? The man would ask today, do you need it? Is there anything I can help you with? No, Hannah, I got it. Tomorrow, can I help? No, Hannah, got it. And then Friday she says, You keep asking me this, you don't see where you think you need to help.
SPEAKER_01No, I don't. That's why I'm asking.
SPEAKER_06It's common sense.
SPEAKER_01So that common sense within women, or personal common sense is not the same as the next person.
SPEAKER_02True. If I'm making bed, if I'm making up the bed and you ask me if you can help me, I'll say yes, because after making the bed, I just want coffee and to sit down.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_02However, when you're making up the bed, I ask you, would you like me to help you with anything? You say, No, it's fine. You make the bed, you come find me sitting with coffee, and you say, Can you please make me coffee too? Why didn't you say at the time when I was asking you? So being a good idea.
SPEAKER_04Because at that time I did not think of having coffee.
SPEAKER_02You see, at that time, I can't fit that time, it's gone. It would be nice of you to kindly ask him, so can you please make me a cup of coffee? Not how I was expecting a cup of coffee that you do. That's what I do, that's not what you do that after making the badge. So we have those I do this, he does that. So I expect her to do as I do. However, she's a different person, that's why I chose this, so that she gets to help me where I'm lacking, so that we know we get to sort of like fit in perfectly. Now, because of expectations, when I move left, I'm expecting her to move left. And she has a mind of her own. She wants, she's smelling roses on the right, and she'd say, um, I'm coming back. I'm just going here.
SPEAKER_01I'm like, but I expected you. So it's communication that we're getting.
SPEAKER_03It is, it is. And I I I feel like just generally, even you know, putting communication aside, like just hearing you speak about it. I wanted us to wrap up and I hope we can actually do a part three of this because I feel like there's just so much. Um much that we can talk about, maybe even have a third person for part three. Then we can have it as a round table, you know, and have a discussion. Like besides it being communication, one thing you just made me realize is that, like you said, um as women, that's why even when we talk to each other's friends or or sisters, whatever, we get to understand it. Oh, but oh, why didn't you do that? Oh, because we are of the same gender. When you then come back and say, but I haven't, I don't know. I think you can carry that. It's not heavy, you know, or I think you can open that, you know, you don't need me. Um, how we are so different, and yet when we we in so much distress, we forget that we are two different species trying to actually just exist and build something together. Instead, we we we navigate trying to be this one wholesome thing, instead of appreciating each other's flaws and each other's indifferences, and then trying to find the common ground to navigate love. You know, then that's the reality. Navigating love is that. That's the reality. And I liked when you said that, but I feel there's so much we have to speak about, and um, I think we have to end it. And we will come back with part three. I think we need to really break it down. And this time I really, I think I really want to understand the psyche of men. I I think it will help a lot of women, it will help me also as a female, because you really touched on points where I've never thought about it. Or it can also be us being selfish, you know, where generally with me, it's the same thing as common sense. Come on, come on, come on, you're grown up, we're adults, come on, you know, whereas generally your brains as males um act differently towards towards us women. And I'm also getting to see that even in raising a teenage stand, that some things you you constantly saying it, and to him it's like, why should I be bothered? It doesn't bother me, you know. If if it doesn't bother me, why is it bothering you? Type of thing. So I'm getting to also understand that in in in in seeing a young man grow, that what I expect and what bothers me does not bother him. So why am I bothered about things that that don't bother him? Like it's my room, it's smell, it's untidy. You don't sleep in there. So why are you bothered about that room? You sleep in your room where it's clean and tidy and and and you know. So I want us to end it here, Len. Thank you so much for jumping onto the podcast. And I can't wait for part three. Hopefully, you'll have time and make time for us to sit down and have this conversation. Um, and I hope we get a third, a third guest or a second guest since I'm the host, um, so we can then dissect the psyche of men. And I don't know if we should make it up. I think we'll say navigating love versus reality through the eyes of men.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, in closing this part, I just want to say that consistency is created through planning and execution of plans is based on discipline. So without planning, there is no consistency. Yes, we may be spontaneous, but we also need to discuss that spontaneousness within the schedule so that one gets to understand that today will be spontaneous. So, what am I, you know, what are my options and what am I open to? So then we know how to navigate through all the expectations and the communication. Because I'm not to communicate in a certain way at a certain time. I have to evaluate that. So even when we're planning, discipline comes in because we can plan to communicate talk about something today. We're talking about money today. No matter how angry we may be, you need to take your mind out of that anger and then we talk about money because now we're in a space where we're building. So when we plan it, then we can execute it only when we're disciplined to do that.
SPEAKER_03I like that. I like that. I like that wisdom. I really like it. Thank you so much. And to our listeners, remember love is a beautiful journey with its ups and downs. Join us next time for part three for more of these heartfelt conversations on unspoken truth. We will be having yet another guest so we can have a wider open discussion in the eyes of males, in the perception of males. So stay tuned. Until then, take care of your hearts. Love and light to you all, to my spoken truth family. I thank you.
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